“The masculine energy I think is good, and obviously, society has plenty of that, but I think that corporate culture was really trying to get away from it,” Zuckerberg told Rogan in an episode published earlier this month.

“I think having a culture that celebrates the aggression a bit more has its own merits. It’s one thing to say we want to be welcoming and make a good environment for everyone, and I think it’s another to basically say that masculinity is bad.”

His comments follow suggestions that US President-elect Donald Trump’s electoral success in November’s poll against Vice President Kamala Harris was partly attributable to a pushback against so-called “woke” policies (with one campaign advertisement suggesting that Harris is for “they/them”, while Trump is for “you”, being seen as particularly effective in defeating the Democratic candidate).

Lawyers Weekly’s sister brand HR Leader last year explored whether disdain for “wokeness” is impacting DEI initiatives. In the US, major companies that have, in recent months, committed to a DEI rollback are Amazon, Meta, McDonald’s, Walmart, and Ford, while Apple has stood firm on its policies.

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With such a cultural realignment being floated (or even already underway), Lawyers Weekly reached out to some of the biggest law firms operating in Australia to determine how those businesses intend to proceed in 2025 and beyond.

‘I hope firms will double down’

Pinsent Masons partner and head of Australia Matthew Croagh said he “can’t see any reason” for Australian law firms to roll back programs and policies designed to create diverse workforces and to develop positive environments for all people to thrive.

“Law firms such as ours have seen the clear benefits of these initiatives, and certainly for us at Pinsent Masons, there is no turning back,” he said.

“We have been examining over the past 12 months how we continue to maintain a workplace for everyone. This has included revamping our employee benefits, enhancing our parental leave policy, and introducing measures to ensure greater gender pay equity.”

If US-based law firms “do adopt more of a ‘bro’ culture, which would be highly unfortunate”, Croagh said, he sees an opportunity for multinational firms such as his to attract talented lawyers “who have been sidelined by this shift”.

DLA Piper Australian managing partner Amber Matthews – who recently appeared on The Lawyers Weekly Show to discuss the firm’s future direction Down Under – said she hopes Australian firms “see the clear importance” of diverse workforces and “recognise their responsibility” to develop their people to thrive in their careers.

“Ultimately, this is what DEI programs are designed to do, so I don’t think we’ll see firms rolling back these initiatives,” she said.

“We still have a lot more to do to be a truly diverse profession in Australia, so I hope firms will double down on their DEI commitments, rather than water them down.”

MinterEllison chief talent officer Nikki Jones said her firm remains “steadfast” in its DEI commitments.

“These principles are not just policies; they are fundamental to our culture and our ability to deliver excellence to our clients,“ she said.

“We believe that fostering an inclusive and diverse workplace drives innovation, enhances collaboration, and helps us attract and retain the best talent.”

In 2025 and beyond, Jones added, “we will continue to foster a workplace where everyone can thrive and contribute to their full potential”.

Navigating the market and climate

Reflecting on the shifting winds, Gadens chief executive and managing partner Mark Pistilli – who also recently appeared on The Lawyers Weekly Show to discuss the firm’s strategy and leadership lessons from Ted Lasso – noted the change in approach “seems to be heavily influenced” by the very different philosophies of the outgoing Biden administration and the incoming Trump administration.

As such, he said, Gadens thinks it will “play out differently” in Australia than in the US.

“With respect to Australian law firms, we would be surprised if many change their approach following the apparent cultural shift in the US, as many of them (though not all) have policies that are more centrist. In our case, we do not see the changing political climate in the US impacting our approach in this area,” he said.

“We have always believed, and still believe, in the benefits of diversity, achieved through structures that support meaningful and equal opportunity for all. We focus on the success of all our people, irrespective of gender, age, background, demographic or other features – and whether they are in the majority or not.”

“Our policies are created to help all of our people be the best version of themselves – in their career and their life outside of work – and to create an environment in which everyone is treated fairly and can thrive.”

Piper Alderman managing partner Tony Britten-Jones pointed out that law firms in Australia operate in a very competitive environment, both in jockeying for clientele and available talent.

“I have no doubt that competition will continue to motivate law firms in Australia to pursue DEI initiatives, notwithstanding recent rumblings in the US,” he said.

“Without a positive and effective approach to DEI, law firms will fail.”

Getting DEI right

This all said, the success of such workplace initiatives, Matthews pointed out, will require a focus on the output of programs: “not just through analysing the data – but through listening to our people about their day-to-day experience”.

“This will help ensure the programs deliver the intended outcomes and ultimately promote a culture of inclusion for everyone, which – as evidence supports – drives both increased employee satisfaction and high performance,” she said.

Britten-Jones made similar remarks, noting that “tokenistic ‘lip service’ DEI practices or other initiatives which place no value on merit, performance or contribution have their days numbered”.

“Firms that explore opportunities and develop initiatives that attract, motivate and support ambitious, talented lawyers where gender, race and creed have no bearing are the ones who will succeed,” he said.

Herbert Smith Freehills partner and Australian head of ESG Tim Stutt said that DEI is ultimately about good people management, just like broader ESG is about good risk management.

“Organisations need to regularly consider whether initiatives support the strategic aims of their business and continue to be fit for purpose, including vis-à-vis the regulatory and political landscape,” he said.

“This might mean that some initiatives relating to diversity, equity and inclusion are scaled back, while others progress – but DEI at its core is not going to go away.”

Talent management and people engagement are too important, Stutt went on, to business performance for companies to really step away in a substantive sense.

HSF, he explained, frequently considers whether its programs have been developed in evidence-based and impactful ways, “and we aim for our decisions to be guided by the best interests of our people, clients, and the firm”.

Unwinding of DEI and ‘woke’ initiatives

Whether more corporate entities (including law firms) in the United States roll back their DEI initiatives in the age of Trump 2.0 remains to be seen. How Australian businesses in sectors other than law respond is also an open question.

At least one managing partner of an Australia-based law firm, however, fears a significant cultural realignment.

Speaking to HR Leader last week, Marque Lawyers managing partner Michael Bradley argued that Zuckerberg’s comments “can be seen as an element of his transparent shift towards conforming with President Trump’s agenda, but it also reflects a broader movement across all Western countries that has been accelerating rapidly, away from and in opposition to progressive values”.

“We can expect to see diversity and inclusion come under serious fire in Australia as if they are bad things. Much of what has been gained over the past 50 years or so, in terms of social and cultural equality, is at risk of being unwound. Anyone who thinks that isn’t the case isn’t concentrating,” he said.