Mr Hagias said that he started both his firms as a way to challenge, and improve upon, the traditional lawyer-client model.

“What became evident to me was that the traditional lawyer client model wasn’t sufficient to help clients to the extent they needed. So, we’re talking big projects or complete revamps to risk and compliance functions that clients were wanting us to help them solve. And the traditional billable model wasn’t compatible with those projects,” he said.

“It was client demand and the need for clients wanting a different service that drove me to start both businesses. And this was really so I could provide the full spectrum of offering to clients – legal, risk and compliance, consulting. It was effectively an avenue for me to broaden what I was otherwise doing as a lawyer.”

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Both Tecne Lawyers and AFSL House are specialist financial services businesses – and Mr Hagias said that separating the two businesses allowed him to not only become more involved, but to test different methods under each brand to see what worked best for clients.

“I think naturally there are limits on what you can do as a law firm, how you can market it, fee models that work. And it gets really hard to run a business if you’re testing a lot of things on the side and trying to run a business, plus test all these concepts and ideas under the one brand,” he said.

“Our involvement needed to be different. We needed to be in the business more. Instead of fixing the problem, sometimes we were engaged or we were advising clients who to hire, what their organisational structure should look like to solve problems or to deal with issues within the business.”

Under typical legal retainer models, clients often cannot get everything they need under one roof – and according to Mr Hagias it all comes down to knowing what your clients want, as well as knowing if you can provide it to them or not.

“It’s really a matter of self-reflection on what your clients are actually wanting and what services will actually give your clients the best outcomes that you can provide,” he said.

“And from my perspective, in a financial services sense, some of the outcomes that clients wanted in terms of their risk and compliance set up, completely overhauling their compliance arrangements or the way they conduct compliance meetings or they consider their risks, just simply could not be done under a legal retainer where the typical model is.”

Mr Hagias used this thought process when starting both his businesses at the peak of the pandemic last year and said that niche businesses targeting specific clients are the way forward.

“Lawyers are great at thinking about all the negatives, which is great when you’re starting two businesses in the middle of COVID. But for me it was, AFSL House, there is a crossover with Tecne. They are marketed to different audiences with AFSL House really being targeted towards start-ups and Fintech” he said.

“I think niches will become the norm and niches will become narrower. Twenty years ago, you had a corporate and commercial firm that did everything.

“The macro trend I’m seeing is that clients will go to particular law firms for a particular service because that law firm is the best at what it does. So, I think it will have a massive impact, or this macro trend will have an impact on business models that have previously relied on general practice areas.”

Looking to the future, Mr Hagias said law firms will fall into three categories – and that his firms both fall into the boutique category. And knowing which category you fall into is key to meeting your clients’ needs.

“I think there’ll be three types of law firms in the future. You have your full-service firm, your huge big end of town firm that does everything, it does everything well. Then you’ll have your mid tiers, which have core practice areas and contracting services and expertise, as and when they’re required. And then finally you have your boutique firms, which are really, really good at one particular area. That’s where we’re playing,” he said.

“So those broader trends were effectively the genesis of the business-to-business model, where we were seeing clients deal with law firms that didn’t have particular expertise in financial services and they were getting the wrong advice, or the advice could have been better and it could have left them in a better position.”

The transcript of this podcast episode was slightly edited for publishing purposes. To listen to the full conversation with Peter Hagias click below: